<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><font face="arial, sans-serif">Hello modern crypto crew, </font></div><div dir="ltr"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div dir="ltr"><font face="arial, sans-serif">I've lurked on this list for a year or two, knowing that one day I'd seek your help. Today's the day. <br></font><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">i'm a journalist specialising in drugs, tech, and the net. I wrote the book <a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drugs-2-0-Revolution-Thats-Changing/dp/1846274591">Drugs 2.0</a> about the emergence of a digital drug market. (I once sold 25 bitcoin for £100, to give you an idea of my all-seeing prescience in the field...) </font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">Part of my work involves communicating with anonymous sources in the organised criminal underworld. Security is important to me, and much more important to them. I'm losing key contacts and stories because I can't afford an Encro phone lease (£3,000 a year). </font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">Anyway, I'm researching a piece on Encro phones and crypto standards in commercial phone software for a book i'm pitching, and also for a series of planned articles. </font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">I understand that Encro phones are sold in Holland on six-month leases. I'm struggling to understand this company's model, and customer base. I've spoken to users and they just say "it's safe". But they don't even use or understand PGP or keybase. Every serious criminal I have ever met has an Encro phone. </font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">This story alerted me to the phenomenon: </span><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><a href="https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/sold-liverpool-3k-year-mobile-15652444" target="_blank">https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/sold-liverpool-3k-year-mobile-15652444</a></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">Almost every murder case or major drug bust in Liverpool involves these devices. </font></div><div><a href="https://encrophone.com/en/" target="_blank">https://encrophone.com/en/</a><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">My questions follow. Any assistance on or off-list would be much appreciated, and I would cite and attribute any quote of yours that I use, or we can work anonymously with you as a protected source if required. </font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="arial, sans-serif">Thanks for reading what I think may become a long mail. If anyone would like to call me instead of writing, I'm on signal and can supply my number if you mail me at <a href="mailto:mikepeterpower@fastmail.fm" target="_blank">mikepeterpower@fastmail.fm</a>. </font></div></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">So: </font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">1. What advantages, if any, do these Encro phones offer over standard consumer devices fitted with the latest crypto messaging software? Why not just use Wickr, Telegram, Signal, etc?  Are they that technically advaadvanced? How? What makes them better? </font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">2. Would anyone be so kind as to rate, in order of security first, the following OS and messaging app combos. (</font><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">The threat model is that of an experienced drug laboratory owner in the N</span>etherlands selling, but not<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> exporting  drugs to the value of £10m a year. He works a few months in one spot and then moves</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">. Interpol would love to arrest him, as would the Dutch police.)</span></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">Which oS should this (entirely imaginary) criminal use, and why? </font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><b><font face="arial, sans-serif">Android: </font></b></div><div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="arial, sans-serif">Encro phone with encrochat: </font><a href="https://encrophone.com/en/" target="_blank">https://encrophone.com/en/</a></div></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">Wickr – free version</font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">Signal</font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">Telegram</font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">Keybase</font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">Bat</font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><a href="https://tox.chat" target="_blank">https://tox.chat</a><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><a href="https://www.batmessenger.com" target="_blank">https://www.batmessenger.com</a><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">Whatsapp ( I know.! But I need to have a line from an expert telling me it sucks. The public think it is safe but do not realise that Whatsapp metadata and lack of perfect forward secrecy, and the fact all messages pass through a centralised server, is a high-risk set up. </font></div><div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Encro phone with encrochat</span><br></div></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><b><font face="arial, sans-serif">Apple iOS</font></b></div><div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="arial, sans-serif">Wickr</font></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="arial, sans-serif">Signal</font></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="arial, sans-serif">Telegram</font></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="arial, sans-serif">Keybase</font></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><a href="https://tox.chat" target="_blank">https://tox.chat</a><br></font></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><a href="https://www.batmessenger.com" target="_blank">https://www.batmessenger.com</a><br></font></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Bat</div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="arial, sans-serif">Whatsapp ( I know... but I need to have a line from an expert telling me it sucks. </font></div></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Encro phone with encrochat</span><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="arial, sans-serif">The theoretical use case is my imaginary drug dealer communicating with local wholesalers in Holland and the EU, infrequently, on a traceless, non-contract phone acquired with cash from a trusted third party. No calls, just text. </font></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">I know, thanks to thegrugq, that security involves much more than tech. </span><font face="arial, sans-serif">So although I want to know about the strength of the crypto used by each of these,  I want to know about the  ephemerality of messages, and companies' willingness/ability to co-operate with the law. For example, Wickr claims it cooperates with police, but that one's messages are inaccessible. </font></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">In short, I'd like to know why cops can't access Encro phones, or if Moxie Marlinspike's free Signal app doesn't just do a similar job. </span><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">I'd also like to know if I am safe using these apps to speak to criminals, and what police can do to identify them if they seize my, or their phone. </span></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Examples of my work: </span></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><b>• Undercover sting on Chinese MDMA precursor sting</b></font></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><a href="https://mixmag.net/feature/we-went-undercover-in-a-chinese-mdma-factory" target="_blank">https://mixmag.net/feature/we-went-undercover-in-a-chinese-mdma-factory</a><br></font></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><b>• here's a longform piece for US readers. </b></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><a href="https://www.playboy.com/read/molly-s-lethal-rebirth" target="_blank">https://www.playboy.com/read/molly-s-lethal-rebirth</a></font></div></div></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Contact details follow. any help would be so very gratefully received. </span></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="arial, sans-serif">keybase: researchsystems</font></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="arial, sans-serif">twitter: mrmichaelpower </font></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face="arial, sans-serif">PGP follows this select portfolio. </font></div><div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><div id="gmail-m_6440788857753533525gmail-AppleMailSignature"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><font face="arial, sans-serif">---------------------------<br><b>Mike Power</b><br><a href="https://medium.com/matter-archive/the-drug-revolution-that-no-one-can-stop-19f753fb15e0" target="_blank">Winner: ABSW Best Investigative Journalism<br></a><a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Drugs-2-0-Revolution-Thats-Changing/dp/1846274591" target="_blank">Drugs 2.0 – out now<br></a><a href="http://mikepower.pressfolios.com/" target="_blank">Portfolio<br></a><a href="http://www.theguardian.com/profile/mike-power" target="_blank">Guardian<br></a>-----------------------------</font></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----</div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.2</div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">Comment: GPGTools - <a href="http://gpgtools.org">http://gpgtools.org</a></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><br></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">mQENBFHcirQBCADWJsvEHUnV8f2VlJygwvOIIFSfqmtv209bVqslMBebis7mkr3n</div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">UVs55Qh7bopub71vInU09ukNxrKW8cCAA49VaProJuGYxEPkaSZhSdz1MMdLNoPs</div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">myMNPDF7F7bosKzmknb0rfSOURIyjElyTFK3TBVvyGLW9y+1KCRDZNjBBWlUC69x</div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">FVD3egUB5OhqAW7RXTotH9db8Eu7w14DNzdMlRDNtK39XTVk16k4ZNstNy8rHGl9</div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">2n59kvB50xiTll5GH4n4OeB+hYWECAvMFBUqD7Iqa9dntpKn5Nisqhj22V8zDPwD</div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">Yqubb2PO1fWGnBN2wpb1JQpa7VWnj/0SKptXABEBAAG0QG1pY2hhZWwgcG93ZXIg</div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">KEZPUiBQUklWQVRFIFdPUksgR0ROKSA8bWlrZS5wb3dlckBndWFyZGlhbi5jby51</div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">az6JAVcEEwEKAEECGy8FCwkIBwMFFQoJCAsFFgIDAQACHgECF4ACGQEWIQSm24BR</div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">RpUp//oB3xeXEtwdBf/qzQUCWvmR1QUJFklkIQAKCRCXEtwdBf/qzQ94B/9XWTg4</div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">RmUZNuV0vTmlHfjGZVwTtc1YzTAkvJz1D7IUGAIPMEYVU1gia9IYt2NnJf9Ey0i7</div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">uGhVDNDPSkTZfoQ/trvRfeQZPGFGOcMpM1RwsA0OuG7ao0sAyw0tFQQqj/YxhNyT</div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">nJxgkxHJ3EizYdc0fq9SUez2Wz7y+FGHS+A7QY94BihYiXhsd0KgPj2BebHhH+xL</div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">eueZ5HMW9p0UoaNBYM3SCz82JJ3IlhIf3WJyP4qms1OERuUfR147OkwkzsRpy12v</div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">3jHKFwZ7+RfVBXSgOH/JLntloUdXhaoh0alB4aNCWcUsJSvzIkgsibKnXOsKOLj6</div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">D24OMDsmtKhrfLuMtD9NaWtlIFBvd2VyIChob21lKSAoYWRkZWQgSmFuIDIwMTQp</div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">IDxtaWtlcGV0ZXJwb3dlckBmYXN0bWFpbC5mbT6JAVQEEwEKAD4CGy8FCwkIBwMF</div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">FQoJCAsFFgIDAQACHgECF4AWIQSm24BRRpUp//oB3xeXEtwdBf/qzQUCWvmR3wUJ</div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">FklkIQAKCRCXEtwdBf/qzWdqB/sE254moBy/2raekgazv7jwAEFGarjTHPnZ+WSG</div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">rSvJ1GeLOvLpIs2ZlwH/fiFAIlhCHiRa3g5fAnlCjShnl1oT1WWkno7YalUJpNHB</div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">eQqt5NwWA35KN21q/ilXTOROz+v8i9I5sTd8VcUmYopIRwRv/S7c1YokoRhJhA6x</div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">MDW1KRZXbNzLSxwGJ3LTONsmuFWb/srWvasKGXJh8X+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<div style="font-size:1.3em;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><hr></div><div><font style="font-family:Arial;font-size:small">This e-mail and all attach</font><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:small">ments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the</span><font style="font-family:Arial;font-size:small"> named recipient, please notify the sender and delete the e-mail and all attachments immediately. Do not disclose the contents to another person. You may not use the information for any purpose, or store, or copy, it in any way.  Guardian News & Media Limited is not liable for any computer viruses or other material transmitted with or as part of this e-mail. You should employ virus checking software.</font></div><div><font size="2" face="Arial"> </font></div><div><font size="2" face="Arial">Guardian News & Media Limited is a member of Guardian Media Group plc. R<font>egistered Office: </font>PO Box 68164, Kings Place, 90 York Way, London, <font>N1P 2AP.  </font>Registered in England Number 908396</font></div><div style="font-size:1.3em;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><br></font></div><div style="font-size:1.3em;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div>