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<body><div style="font-family:georgia, serif;">Relatedly, is there an expected relationship between the rows in the security properties table for a protocol and its deferred version?<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"><br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"><br></div>
<div>On Mon, 18 Jun 2018, at 10:13 AM, jake mcginty wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote type="cite"><div style="font-family:georgia, serif;">On the new deferred patterns: although an appendix is included with the exact patterns definitions, the spec itself is unspecific about how deferred patterns are generated from the fundamentals.<br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div style="font-family:georgia, serif;">It doesn't strictly define where the authenticating DH operations are moved to from their original position, and the appendix patterns don't seem to follow a consistent pattern (ex: XX1 *prepends* the "es" token to the next message, whereas NK1 *appends* the "es" token to the next message).<br></div>
<div><div><div><div><br></div>
<div>Is this intentional and implementers are expected to hardcode these new patterns?<br></div>
<div><div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite"><div>On Jun 13, 2018, at 1:42 AM, Trevor Perrin <<a href="mailto:trevp@trevp.net">trevp@trevp.net</a>> wrote:<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"><br></div>
<div><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div>
<div>Hi all,<br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;">Quick status update for the Noise spec revision 34:<br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Noise Explorer is finishing an updated analysis, sounds like we'll get it this week. If everything checks out, I'll publish the spec afterwards.<br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Thus it's a great time to do last-minute proof-reading, if anyone's so inclined. There's a change log, so you can focus on the parts that were updated (or look at diffs):<br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div><div><a href="https://github.com/noiseprotocol/noise_spec/tree/rev34">https://github.com/noiseprotocol/noise_spec/tree/rev34</a><br></div>
<div><a href="https://github.com/noiseprotocol/noise_spec/blob/rev34/output/noise.pdf">https://github.com/noiseprotocol/noise_spec/blob/rev34/output/noise.pdf</a><br></div>
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<div><br></div>
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<div><br></div>
<div>Trevor<br></div>
<div><br></div>
</div>
<div><div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"><br></div>
<div defang_data-gmailquote="yes"><div style="font-family:georgia, serif;">On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 2:18 AM, Trevor Perrin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:trevp@trevp.net">trevp@trevp.net</a>></span> wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote defang_data-gmailquote="yes" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex;"><div style="font-family:georgia, serif;">I updated revision 34 draft with:<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> <br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> * Security properties for deferred patterns in appendix, taken from<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> Noise Explorer.<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> <br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> * Renamed "authentication" / "confidentiality" security properties in<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> spec to "source" / "destination", since the Noise Explorer team<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> pointed out these categories don't map directly to the previous terms.<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> <br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> * In section 10, clarified the distinction between "switch protocols"<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> (a protocol that Bob switches to) and "fallback protocols" (a protocol<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> that uses the fallback modifier).<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> <br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> * In section 10, removed some of the description of a "type byte";<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> and generalized/renamed the "Type fields" discussion in "Application<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> responsibilities" to discuss "Negotiation data".<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> <br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> * Added X1N pattern (which I forgot somehow; so needs to be added to<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> Noise Explorer too).<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> <br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> <br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> For the first two points, I'd like to follow-up with Noise Explorer<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> team and see whether they agree with how the spec presents these<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> properties. In particular, do they still want 2 additional<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> categories? [1].<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> <br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> For the next 2 points: we don't want to put NoiseSocket/NLS stuff in<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> this spec, but I think exploring those things has improved our<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> understanding of how to build things around Noise, so reflecting that<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> better understanding in this spec makes sense.<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> <br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> We could use proof-reading of the security properties table, that's a<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> lot for me to transcribe from Noise Explorer..<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> <br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> Other comments?<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> <br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> I keep saying this, but hopefully we can publish this week.<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> <br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> <br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> <a href="https://github.com/noiseprotocol/noise_spec/tree/rev34">https://github.com/<wbr>noiseprotocol/noise_spec/tree/<wbr>rev34</a><br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> <a href="https://github.com/noiseprotocol/noise_spec/blob/rev34/output/noise.pdf">https://github.com/<wbr>noiseprotocol/noise_spec/blob/<wbr>rev34/output/noise.pdf</a><br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> <br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> <br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> Trevor<br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> <br></div>
<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"> [1] <a href="https://github.com/noiseprotocol/noise_spec/tree/rev34">https://github.com/<wbr>noiseprotocol/noise_spec/tree/<wbr>rev34</a><br></div>
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<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;"><br></div>
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<div style="font-family:georgia, serif;">_______________________________________________<br></div>
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</blockquote></div>
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