[messaging] Peerio

Nadim Kobeissi nadim at nadim.computer
Wed Feb 25 15:06:53 PST 2015

I'm reviving this thread now that I actually have something substantial to
say regarding Peerio's crypto.

I was inspired by the recent debate over PGP to write this blog post:

I'm basically outlining how I think Peerio can be more attractive than PGP
to a vast majority of PGP's users.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on that blog post. I'd also like to thank
everyone who gave their early comments on Peerio and thank Mike for
starting off this thread.


On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 2:19 AM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg at fifthhorseman.net>

> On Fri 2015-01-16 19:07:47 -0500, Joseph Bonneau wrote:
> > Is there a design rationale for these choices? 112 bits is overkill for
> > something users need to memorize (especially with 2^17 of stretching)
> and a
> > 2^16 dictionary in my experience is vastly bigger than ideal (though we
> > don't really have good research confirming this, it's just a hunch).
> >
> > Personally I would say 70 bits plus 2^20 stretching is secure against any
> > economically imaginable attacker and 60 bits plus 20 bits of stretching
> is
> > probably secure against non state-level attackers.
> This prescription is missing a timescale.
> Systems like peerio and minilock have no key transition mechanism
> available, no way for users to change a passphrase.  If they're intended
> for lasting use, at least some of the encrypted information will need to
> withstand attackers 10 years from now or later.
> Even ignoring major disruptions in hardware, are should we expect users
> to settle for 90 bits of defense (or 80 bits against "non-state-level"
> attackers) for 10 years?
> Nadim's choices here might be a little conservative, they don't seem
> excessive to me, given the other tradeoffs he's made in cryptosystem
> design.
>            --dkg
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