[noise] rev34 status

[Nadim Kobeissi]

I agree with Jake that there doesn't seem to be a real logic as to how to
produce deferred patterns from fundamental patterns.

Katriel: this isn't an answer to your question, but a (hopefully helpful)
note that Noise Explorer contains results for deferred patterns and can be
used as a reference to check for any security property differences :-)

Nadim Kobeissi
Symbolic Software • https://symbolic.software
Sent from office


On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 11:22 AM Katriel Cohn-Gordon <me at katriel.co.uk>
wrote:

> Relatedly, is there an expected relationship between the rows in the
> security properties table for a protocol and its deferred version?
>
>
> On Mon, 18 Jun 2018, at 10:13 AM, jake mcginty wrote:
>
> On the new deferred patterns: although an appendix is included with the
> exact patterns definitions, the spec itself is unspecific about how
> deferred patterns are generated from the fundamentals.
>
> It doesn't strictly define where the authenticating DH operations are
> moved to from their original position, and the appendix patterns don't seem
> to follow a consistent pattern (ex: XX1 *prepends* the "es" token to the
> next message, whereas NK1 *appends* the "es" token to the next message).
>
> Is this intentional and implementers are expected to hardcode these new
> patterns?
>
> On Jun 13, 2018, at 1:42 AM, Trevor Perrin <trevp at trevp.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Quick status update for the Noise spec revision 34:
>
> Noise Explorer is finishing an updated analysis, sounds like we'll get it
> this week.  If everything checks out, I'll publish the spec afterwards.
>
> Thus it's a great time to do last-minute proof-reading, if anyone's so
> inclined.  There's a change log, so you can focus on the parts that were
> updated (or look at diffs):
>
> https://github.com/noiseprotocol/noise_spec/tree/rev34
> https://github.com/noiseprotocol/noise_spec/blob/rev34/output/noise.pdf
>
>
> Trevor
>
>
> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 2:18 AM, Trevor Perrin <trevp at trevp.net> wrote:
>
> I updated revision 34 draft with:
>
>  * Security properties for deferred patterns in appendix, taken from
> Noise Explorer.
>
>  * Renamed "authentication" / "confidentiality" security properties in
> spec to "source" / "destination", since the Noise Explorer team
> pointed out these categories don't map directly to the previous terms.
>
>  * In section 10, clarified the distinction between "switch protocols"
> (a protocol that Bob switches to) and "fallback protocols" (a protocol
> that uses the fallback modifier).
>
>  * In section 10, removed some of the description of a "type byte";
> and generalized/renamed the "Type fields" discussion in "Application
> responsibilities" to discuss "Negotiation data".
>
>  * Added X1N pattern (which I forgot somehow; so needs to be added to
> Noise Explorer too).
>
>
> For the first two points, I'd like to follow-up with Noise Explorer
> team and see whether they agree with how the spec presents these
> properties.  In particular, do they still want 2 additional
> categories? [1].
>
> For the next 2 points:  we don't want to put NoiseSocket/NLS stuff in
> this spec, but I think exploring those things has improved our
> understanding of how to build things around Noise, so reflecting that
> better understanding in this spec makes sense.
>
> We could use proof-reading of the security properties table, that's a
> lot for me to transcribe from Noise Explorer..
>
> Other comments?
>
> I keep saying this, but hopefully we can publish this week.
>
>
> https://github.com/noiseprotocol/noise_spec/tree/rev34
> https://github.com/noiseprotocol/noise_spec/blob/rev34/output/noise.pdf
>
>
> Trevor
>
> [1] https://github.com/noiseprotocol/noise_spec/tree/rev34
>
>
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